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BlackCat
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| Joined: | Thu Feb 21st, 2008 |
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Fri Aug 14th, 2009 07:02 pm |
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So here's an issue that may just possibly be better hashed out in the
Therapist’s office, but I'm gonna bring it up just the same.
I run a fledgling studio and am still VERY much in the process of trying to build a reputation and client base for myself. And, so, this being I give my clients the MOST I possibly can for their money. My feeling is that I
never know who's gonna walk by one of my windows and therefore all examples of my work must always be top notch.
Anyway, here's why I'm posting and I WELCOME your comments.
This past spring I was called by a contractor who was in a panic. She had a
nearly 2 million dollar property that she was closing on and two of the eleven leaded panels in the place each had one conspicuous crack. She had called a colleague of mine who had offered to repair both for $800.00 but he passed my name on as someone who may be willing to do the repair in place.
Upon meeting the contractor she made it VERY clear that she only wanted a quick fix so that she could push through the home sale.
Despite being pretty good at it, I don't like fixing things in place where the break is a result of dstress as opposed to, say a newspaper boy or BB-gun.
In the case of these 11 windows all were in fairly rough shape. Most all of the support wires had come lose, though the bowing was minimal. The lead however was chalky, probably the result of moisture seeping under the came as most all the cement was either absent or falling lose (of particular concern to me now because the new homeowner has two very small children). More than that there were areas where the lead had cracked (particularly at the intersection of the solder joints) which wasn't apparent until I was doing the two repairs.
So, fast forward to the present...the new homeowner calls me on the advice of her contractor and I have another look at the windows. What I see on this visit is two areas (where the lead margin meets the wooden sash) that have opened to the outside…I show the homeowner that I can actually slip a credit card through this gap where glass ought to be held by flat ‘H’. I explain that my approach would be to remove each window, replace any damaged lead, re-cement and reattach each of the separated tie wires. I take a few photos and let her know that I’ll be writing up an estimate.
Well, not two hours go by when I get a call from the contractor. The contactor is at the house and is NOT happy. She tells me that she’ll pay me to “just put some cement on the windows and that I must tell the homeowner that there is NOTHING structurally wrong with these windows.” I explain that I actually do think the windows have structural issues and ought to be fixed, moreover I explain that I would do them at a considerable discount as a professional courtesy…but she’s not interested and instructs “just do what I told you to do and send me an invoice” Whoah!
Sooooo...I write up an estimate out lining what I’m willing to do I explain why I believe repairing all the damaged lead and tie wires in place isn’t work I’d be comfortable doing. I explain why I believe each ought be removed and restored. My price- $400.00 per panel to remove, restore and reinstall.
Well, so, she balks at the price letting me know she called two other studios (each one a studio that I completely respect). Studio “A” tells her the windows are fine and to just cover them with storms. Studio “B” said that for $100.00 they would re-cement just the outside of each window and that would suffice.
So folks, what am I doing wrong? Frankly I feel like a fool. I suppose I should have just done what the contractor told me to do, certainly in this economy some money is better than no money, right? More than that if a big studio with a fantastic reputation can just put some cement on a problem than who am I to refuse to do the same?
Advice? ‘cause this one just might send me back to finish my degree in nursing. :o(
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David Crane
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Posted: Fri Aug 14th, 2009 09:07 pm |
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Rule one- don't ever let "other people" run your business.
Your intuition is already telling you to avoid that snake of a contractor.
Just because they are big studios does not mean they are doing it right. Their "fantastic reputation" will not last long. This instance should help you reconsider your opinion of them.
No money is not better than some money. Robbing a bank will get you some money but consider what you have to do to get it and the consequences.
You are not a fool.
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Beth
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| Joined: | Thu Jul 2nd, 2009 |
| Location: | Syracuse |
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Fri Aug 14th, 2009 10:57 pm |
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Most likely the contract called the other studios and told them the "problem" and asked for a "solution" and estimate, but that they did not look at the windows. I am also willing to bet dollars to donuts that she did not tell them what was really wrong or the full breadth of the problem. I doubt she mentioned anything beyond the gap when she called the other places, assuming she is telling the truth.
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Vic
AGG Member
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Posted: Sat Aug 15th, 2009 02:56 am |
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| The hardest thing to learn in business is to say NO. If you feel that the job is wrong, just say no. You don't need to explain anything.
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BlackCat
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Sat Aug 15th, 2009 12:14 pm |
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Thanks for the feedback!!! One other thing I wonder about is...what are we, stained glass folks, responsible for when it comes to kids and lead? If we go to a home and see a potentially dangerous situation is it incumbent on us to send up a red flag and/or do the right thing? For instance if I were to just slap some cement on the outside and then the children test positive for lead after munching on the falling cement can I be sued?
I'm a landlord as are several of my friends and I KNOW the city doesn't play when it comes to lead! Eeek!
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Vic
AGG Member
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Posted: Sat Aug 15th, 2009 09:51 pm |
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Your question crosses well beyond stained glass. The question is, who are we as individuals working and living in a society. Where does your responsibility to others begin and end. Moral and ethical questions are very difficult to deal with in a business sense. The whistle blowers of the world are generally applauded by the general public, but find that they can't get a job. If you work for others, architects,consultants,GC's, studios you need to weigh the consequences of your ethics. You may be the hero or just out of work. In a perfect world a man/woman should be judged on their words and actions. So , is it a perfect world? Regardless, it does feel good to do the right thing.
As they say:
Been there.done that.
What goes around, comes around
You will be rewarded in your next life
A mans got to do, what a man has to do.
Good guys finish last.
Vic
Last edited on Sat Aug 15th, 2009 09:55 pm by Vic
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Adam
AGG Member
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Sun Aug 16th, 2009 03:06 am |
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I think if you have actuall lead carbonate on the interior of the window that rubs off like dust and there is one iota of a chance that those children will be crawling through it then you need to let the home owner know exactly what they have and how that can be remedied. Nobody benefits or finishes ahead if kids get sick. Stained glass for the most part is perfectly safe when installed properly and there are half a dozen other ways that your kids could accidentally be poisoned in the home. But if you have a powdery lead carbonate, flaking and falling to the floor every time the window is disturbed in any way, that could be a danger.
If money is an issue to the home owner, suggest that they put in interior storms in front of the lead light . Even before joe from the other studio and his bucket of Cement (Thin "ROAD" cement) show up to do their thing. This could be easily and cheaply done with a sheet of plexi from the home depot. I would also recommend a thin bead of draft stop caulking along the plexi to seal out the dust. Even quicker would be the shrink wrap film that you can put on your windows for the winter. Inform them that this is only a temporary solution and that there windows will continue to degrade the longer they are neglected. But this would help to temporarily mediate the problem of the lead carbonate falling to the interior.
style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ccccff"If the windows are what they appear to be in your picture, a basic queen anne patterned clear glass lead light, and they suffer from all the ailments you describe, numerous cracked joints, seperated tie wires, missing cement, I wouldn't hesitate for a minute to relead them and I would tell them that. I would even show them a sample of your work so that they could see what stable lead looks like as opposed to lead that has reached the end of its life.
style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ccccff"Has for the contractor. Your reputation is to important to risk ruining it for someone else. If you feel something is wrong, stick to your guns.
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Adam
AGG Member
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Posted: Sun Aug 16th, 2009 03:20 am |
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| On second look of your picture, they do not appear to have as much of the powdery lead carbonate that I'm used to occasionally seeing. Not to say that it isn't there and anything that is flaking off an old window should be treated as hazardous. It does look like your windows may have been electroplated or coated with something. Has anyone on here ever run into this? I've seen it quite a few times in residential windows where the lead has a nice even silver tone to it, even on the solder joints, I've always assumed that they've been electroplated. Recently we had a church window in the studio that was electoplated with copper. I noticed that the lead had a brownish tint to it. So I took a piece of steel wool and buffed a small section and it shined up like a shiny new penny, even on the solder joints. I imagine that the window would have looked pretty neat when it was new. The Church opted not to re electroplate the window after releading. What a shame.
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BlackCat
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Sun Aug 16th, 2009 03:44 pm |
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| Vic, Thank you for the thought out response...you're very sweet. I didn't quite realize what I was wrestling with, but you nailed it. I was a philosophy major in college....perhaps if I had paid better attention to Kant and his questions on "moral imperative". :o). Thanks Again~
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BlackCat
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Posted: Sun Aug 16th, 2009 05:45 pm |
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Adam,
Hi, and thanks for your comments. I don't mean to overstate the damage to the lead...it is indeed "chalky" but as to bits of it comming off...no I don't see that. What is coming off is the old cement which I've been told is the danger because, as understand lead, it leaches into the cement. These cement crumbles are what I imagine a child putting in their mouth (apparently lead tastes sweet?). Most all of these windows are in a bay, with two of them right behind a couch...so well within a child reach.
Anyway, I've said my peace to the home owners...it's on them to protect their home and children. I think that more than the $$$ I troubled by the idea that the home owner may think I was attempting to take advantage of her by exaggerating the degree of damage...which is NOT how I roll. :o)
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